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Post by Alec Brownscombe on Sept 17, 2008 19:56:54 GMT -5
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Post by leafer84 on Sept 17, 2008 20:26:17 GMT -5
I think playing him in a 5th or 6th dman role is the worst thing we could do for his development. Why play him 12 minutes a night with some other plug on a crap team when he can log 30mins a night on a team that could win something, likely with him as the captain.
I know he has to make the step eventually, but there really is no rush at all. All it would accomplish is limiting his ice time, preventing him from expanding his offensive game, improve the odds that he'd get hurt (as opposed to getting one more year under his belt and being a little stronger for next season) and open him up to the media pressure before it's needed. Hell, he already got ripped apart in the media for having a bad game in the prospect tournament...imagine a team that is almost dead last in the league with a fanbase hungry for someone to blame.
Will he play with them this season? Maybe for less than 15 games depending on injuries or if some trade goes down that moves at least two dmen (including at least one of Kaberle/Kubina) out of town...otherwise I hope they just let him take his time.
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Post by Ron Guillet on Sept 17, 2008 20:33:08 GMT -5
I think playing him in a 5th or 6th dman role is the worst thing we could do for his development. Why play him 12 minutes a night with some other plug on a crap team when he can log 30mins a night on a team that could win something, likely with him as the captain. I know he has to make the step eventually, but there really is no rush at all. All it would accomplish is limiting his ice time, preventing him from expanding his offensive game, improve the odds that he'd get hurt (as opposed to getting one more year under his belt and being a little stronger for next season) and open him up to the media pressure before it's needed. Hell, he already got ripped apart in the media for having a bad game in the prospect tournament...imagine a team that is almost dead last in the league with a fanbase hungry for someone to blame. Will he play with them this season? Maybe for less than 15 games depending on injuries or if some trade goes down that moves at least two dmen (including at least one of Kaberle/Kubina) out of town...otherwise I hope they just let him take his time. While Schenn would play as the No.5 or 6 guy at the first, he could easily find his way into the top 4 whether through injuries or outplaying his teammates. Some PP time on the 2nd unit would do wonders for him aswell. I agree that some more time with the Rockets would do well, but if he shows that he's clearly a NHL-ready defenseman it would be a shame to not have him in our line-up. Frogren may be older, but he's still never played in the NHL and he's being placed as our #4 d-man.... anything can happen. I think he'll make it IMHO. It'll be interesting to see what happens.. |
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Post by Alex Tran on Sept 17, 2008 20:47:30 GMT -5
RG, you need to consider it from a salary cap practicality point of view as well.
Schenn playing this season at age 19, bumps his UFA age down to 26 because he would have accumulated 7 years of NHL service time.
If he plays more than 10 games, it would officially count as an NHL season.
So, basically the Leafs have to ask themselves whether they would rather have Schen under team control for his age 19 season or his age 27 season?
The answer, in terms of production and usefulness (i.e. when the Leafs are going to be competitive) is quite obvious.
Unless he absolutely forces their hand, he should be back in junior, captaining Team Canada, developing his game and winning WHL MVP, all while saving the Leafs one of his cheap contract years.
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Post by Ron Guillet on Sept 17, 2008 21:06:57 GMT -5
RG, you need to consider it from a salary cap practicality point of view as well. Schenn playing this season at age 19, bumps his UFA age down to 26 because he would have accumulated 7 years of NHL service time. If he plays more than 10 games, it would officially count as an NHL season. So, basically the Leafs have to ask themselves whether they would rather have Schen under team control for his age 19 season or his age 27 season? The answer, in terms of production and usefulness (i.e. when the Leafs are going to be competitive) is quite obvious. Unless he absolutely forces their hand, he should be back in junior, captaining Team Canada, developing his game and winning WHL MVP, all while saving the Leafs one of his cheap contract years. Whether he stays with the Rockets or plays with the Leafs, I think he'll be taking some big strides in development. But going to the part of your post I bolded: This blog is not to suggest he should start regardless of his play level, he'll HAVE to perform at a top level to make the team... and personally, I think he will. Will it be through training camp or in relief or injuries? I don't know... but I believe as soon he's on he won't be getting off. |
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Post by Alex Tran on Sept 17, 2008 21:11:02 GMT -5
RG, you need to consider it from a salary cap practicality point of view as well. Schenn playing this season at age 19, bumps his UFA age down to 26 because he would have accumulated 7 years of NHL service time. If he plays more than 10 games, it would officially count as an NHL season. So, basically the Leafs have to ask themselves whether they would rather have Schen under team control for his age 19 season or his age 27 season? The answer, in terms of production and usefulness (i.e. when the Leafs are going to be competitive) is quite obvious. Unless he absolutely forces their hand, he should be back in junior, captaining Team Canada, developing his game and winning WHL MVP, all while saving the Leafs one of his cheap contract years. Whether he stays with the Rockets or plays with the Leafs, I think he'll be taking some big strides in development. But going to the part of your post I bolded: This blog is not to suggest he should start regardless of his play level, he'll HAVE to perform at a top level to make the team... and personally, I think he will. Will it be through training camp or in relief or injuries? I don't know... but I believe as soon he's on he won't be getting off. I'm just of the mindset that says we shouldn't bring Schenn up no matter what, until there are 9-10 games left in the season to give him a taste of the NHL. Even if he acclimates himself as a reliable top 4 defender this season, it wouldn't mean a whole lot to a lottery team, and it would mean one less cheap season of "top pairing Schenn" through his prime years while we're making the Cup runs. To see how valuable one season can be, just take a look at the Detroit. Zetterberg doesn't require a raise until the end of this season. That allows the Red Wings the 1 year window of signing a player like Hossa, and then giving Zets Hossa's money next year. |
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Post by Ron Guillet on Sept 17, 2008 21:17:32 GMT -5
Whether he stays with the Rockets or plays with the Leafs, I think he'll be taking some big strides in development. But going to the part of your post I bolded: This blog is not to suggest he should start regardless of his play level, he'll HAVE to perform at a top level to make the team... and personally, I think he will. Will it be through training camp or in relief or injuries? I don't know... but I believe as soon he's on he won't be getting off. I'm just of the mindset that says we shouldn't bring Schenn up no matter what, until there are 9-10 games left in the season to give him a taste of the NHL. Even if he acclimates himself as a reliable top 4 defender this season, it wouldn't mean a whole lot to a lottery team, and it would mean one less cheap season of "top pairing Schenn" through his prime years while we're making the Cup runs. To see how valuable one season can be, just take a look at the Detroit. Zetterberg doesn't require a raise until the end of this season. That allows the Red Wings the 1 year window of signing a player like Hossa, and then giving Zets Hossa's money next year. That's an interesting situation. I see your point, and it could ultimately make a difference, but if Schenn is at the point where he's tearing up the WHL and his development is craving for NHL time, do we deny it? Some NHL experience goes a long way, and I don't think we should snub it because of a cap issue.. IMO |
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Post by Alex Tran on Sept 17, 2008 21:26:19 GMT -5
I'm just of the mindset that says we shouldn't bring Schenn up no matter what, until there are 9-10 games left in the season to give him a taste of the NHL. Even if he acclimates himself as a reliable top 4 defender this season, it wouldn't mean a whole lot to a lottery team, and it would mean one less cheap season of "top pairing Schenn" through his prime years while we're making the Cup runs. To see how valuable one season can be, just take a look at the Detroit. Zetterberg doesn't require a raise until the end of this season. That allows the Red Wings the 1 year window of signing a player like Hossa, and then giving Zets Hossa's money next year. That's an interesting situation. I see your point, and it could ultimately make a difference, but if Schenn is at the point where he's tearing up the WHL and his development is craving for NHL time, do we deny it? Some NHL experience goes a long way, and I don't think we should snub it because of a cap issue.. IMO Well, obviously Schenn would have to play some WHL games first before he can count as "tearing it up". While my Schenn stats blog did show that he was comparable to Phaneuf and Weber during their early junior years, both Dion and Shea played one more season in the WHL. During those seasons, they posted crazy high numbers (about 0.75 PPG for Weber and a PPG for Phaneuf) during an entire season before earning NHL jobs at age 21. I don't think Schenn at age 19 and a 0.5 PPG rate qualifies as tearing it up yet. But let's say he does, and scores at a 0.75 PPG pace until December. What now? Does he need to try and take his game to the next level? Well, that's conveniently WJC time, which runs until January. So, Schenn would get to play hockey at junior's highest level, captain Team Canada and go for gold. Suddenly, you're in mid January approaching February. Send Schenn down for another 2 weeks. If he continues to tear it up, then you deal away defenders at the deadline to make room for him. Then when March hits, you call Schenn up for the remaining 10 or so games of the season. He'll have played some dominating games at the WHL level, gotten a chance to captain Team Canada, and get his feet wet in the WHL all in the same season. |
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Post by burn on Sept 17, 2008 21:54:59 GMT -5
I think playing him in a 5th or 6th dman role is the worst thing we could do for his development. Why play him 12 minutes a night with some other plug on a crap team when he can log 30mins a night on a team that could win something, likely with him as the captain. I know he has to make the step eventually, but there really is no rush at all. All it would accomplish is limiting his ice time, preventing him from expanding his offensive game, improve the odds that he'd get hurt (as opposed to getting one more year under his belt and being a little stronger for next season) and open him up to the media pressure before it's needed. Hell, he already got ripped apart in the media for having a bad game in the prospect tournament...imagine a team that is almost dead last in the league with a fanbase hungry for someone to blame. Will he play with them this season? Maybe for less than 15 games depending on injuries or if some trade goes down that moves at least two dmen (including at least one of Kaberle/Kubina) out of town...otherwise I hope they just let him take his time. , he could easily find his way into the top 4 whether through injuries or outplaying his teammates. Some PP time on the 2nd unit would do wonders for him aswell. I agree that some more time with the Rockets would do well, but if he shows that he's clearly a NHL-ready defenseman it would be a shame to not have him in our line-up. Frogren may be older, but he's still never played in the NHL and he's being placed as our #4 d-man.... anything can happen. I think he'll make it IMHO. It'll be interesting to see what happens.. Wilson and Fletcher have said before that he's not going to play unless he's number 4 or better. I agree with that. If he's your number 5 or 6 right away and he's only 18, then he's going to make mistakes and will play like a 7 or 8 sometimes. That is bad for his development. The best thing for him is to go to junior and dominate the WHL playing huge minutes, captain team Canada at the WJC and try to win a memorial cup! I don't think they should rush him. I don't think the LEafs will play him this year. Like Alex said earlier it takes a year of his UFA away if they start him at 18. Alex also mentioned in one of his blogs today that Schenn, if he goes back to junior, was picked by the coaches of the WHL to win the Defenseman of the year award and the MVP award. I think that the best place for him next year is junior. |
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Post by Lee Denault on Sept 17, 2008 23:20:46 GMT -5
I don't want to use Schenn's entry level contract already for him to not play very many minutes.
Let him be,maybe have this discussion in a year in a half.
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Post by CarltonTheBear on Sept 18, 2008 0:39:48 GMT -5
I don't think I can stress enough how important I think it is for Schenn to NOT play with the Leafs this year. There is absolutely no reason to rush him into a losing culture. Let him dominate in the WHL and WJC this year, we don't need him this year.
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Post by Ron Guillet on Sept 18, 2008 7:47:21 GMT -5
That's an interesting situation. I see your point, and it could ultimately make a difference, but if Schenn is at the point where he's tearing up the WHL and his development is craving for NHL time, do we deny it? Some NHL experience goes a long way, and I don't think we should snub it because of a cap issue.. IMO Well, obviously Schenn would have to play some WHL games first before he can count as "tearing it up". While my Schenn stats blog did show that he was comparable to Phaneuf and Weber during their early junior years, both Dion and Shea played one more season in the WHL. During those seasons, they posted crazy high numbers (about 0.75 PPG for Weber and a PPG for Phaneuf) during an entire season before earning NHL jobs at age 21. I don't think Schenn at age 19 and a 0.5 PPG rate qualifies as tearing it up yet. But let's say he does, and scores at a 0.75 PPG pace until December. What now? Does he need to try and take his game to the next level? Well, that's conveniently WJC time, which runs until January. So, Schenn would get to play hockey at junior's highest level, captain Team Canada and go for gold. Suddenly, you're in mid January approaching February. Send Schenn down for another 2 weeks. If he continues to tear it up, then you deal away defenders at the deadline to make room for him. Then when March hits, you call Schenn up for the remaining 10 or so games of the season. He'll have played some dominating games at the WHL level, gotten a chance to captain Team Canada, and get his feet wet in the WHL all in the same season. I see the logic in what you're saying and I'm not saying some more time in the WHL/Team Canada wouldn't help him. All I'm saying is that Fletcher did, in fact, leave the door open for the possibility of Schenn making the team. Again, I see your logic but if Schenn really does ''overwhelm'' (which I believe he will) he will be on the team. according to Fletcher. And as I stated in my blog, I think he'll reach that level.. Is it the best thing for him? Maybe not. We can't say for sure until we a glimpse of his play in pre-season. |
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